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Evo-ERP and DBA Classic >> Source Code and Programming in TAS >> RTM
http://www.istechforum.com/YaBB.pl?num=1165940112

Message started by GasGiant on 12/12/06 at 08:15:12

Title: RTM
Post by GasGiant on 12/12/06 at 08:15:12

Is there someplace I can go to learn more about working with RTMs?

Title: Re: RTM
Post by David Waldmann on 12/13/06 at 05:33:13

Sure. It's called "The School of Hard Knocks" :P

Title: Re: RTM
Post by GasGiant on 12/13/06 at 06:23:23

I've spent a lot of time there. However, there are still a number of things that don't make sense. For instance,

- S/R notes won't print on the S/R packing list. Why? The notes file is opened for S/R order and invoicing. Is the ISSRDESC file not available for the T6SRD RTMs? That would be odd since you are asked if you want notes printed when you print an S/R packing slip. Is the program at fault or is it the RTM?

- Phantom assembly part numbers print on some RTMs and not on others. Why? There must be something in the report to cause the grouping and the printing of the characters "Phantom Assy" on the reports where it prints, right?

It is ridiculous how little information is provided for working with RTMs. Now ISTECH is planning to refashion more of the text reports into RTMs. That would be a good thing if RTM was a format that the user could work with reliably.

And yes, I know that Crystal Reports is much better at making reports. How is that an excuse for DBA?

Title: Re: RTM
Post by gtladmin on 01/23/07 at 15:05:13

I hear your frustration! I'm trying to modify some of the RTMs as a simpler (ha ha) way than going an creating a full blown Crystal when it's only a tweak here or there we need, and it should be easy enough but it isn't.

(sigh)

Val

Title: Re: RTM
Post by kkmfg on 01/24/07 at 05:31:21

GasGiant wrote:

It is ridiculous how little information is provided for working with RTMs. Now ISTECH is planning to refashion more of the text reports into RTMs. That would be a good thing if RTM was a format that the user could work with reliably.

And yes, I know that Crystal Reports is much better at making reports. How is that an excuse for DBA?

Well, the problem is that nobody seems to sell a TAS developed product... Except for DBA. Just go to one of the TAS providers and look at the websites. They're pretty proud that DBA uses it but it seems like DBA is it. In general you do not get great results with a small user base. It's just too time consuming and expensive to pour the blood, sweat, and tears into something you won't get a nice return on. So, there is a reason why Crystal Reports is so much better than TAS's RTM editor (and yes, DBA didn't make it, it comes from the programming compiler company.) Also, the unix way is validated here. It's hard to be all things to all people so every piece of software should focus on doing one thing well and one thing only. You link various products together to come up with something good. CR is a specialized report program and it, from what I've heard, does a wonderful job.

For my part, I think RTM sucks as a report format too. It looks like it started out as a nice WYSIWYG idea but ended up looking terrible and working nearly that well. I try my best not to edit RTM reports because the editor interface looks like a dog pile and the preview function is worthless.
I don't use CR but I do wonder about the possibility of EvoERP going to Crystal Reports instead of using RTM. I'd be willing to bet that a sufficiently motivated person could write a RTM -> CR converter that converts reports from one format to the other. It seems that CR can be integrated with another program to provide reports for that other program. Thus, it is technically possible for EVO to use CR for all reports. I'd be willing to get a copy of CR or pay more for Evo if it used CR.

Title: Re: RTM
Post by kevind on 01/24/07 at 07:36:24

I really like using Crystal Reports.
You can design reports as simple or complex as you like.

If EVO used integrated crystal for all reporting functions, I would be in immediately.

Title: Re: RTM
Post by NovaZyg on 01/24/07 at 09:34:29

ISTech's Programming 2 cents.

RTM's in DBA/Evo are not reporting tools, they are a report formatter that is all. All the data mining and sorting and filtering is done in the programs. It is not like Crystal or other standalone report builders, where the users get access to everything.

Now we could look into merging Crystal with Evo but then all users would have to buy Crystal, not sure we want to go down this road... for users who want to go the Crystal route, nothing stops you from doing so now.

I agree that the RTM's are limited, and I too had to learn how to use them the hard way (try, try, cry, and try again).
The current version in Evo is far better then what it used to be in the old DBA version, and now you can add fields. I would love the ability to add calculated or total fields and it is something I have asked the TAS developers to add. We shall see.

Title: Re: RTM
Post by kkmfg on 01/24/07 at 09:40:04

That's interesting, thanks for the info. It's good that it's improving. I haven't tried it since the DBA days and it positively sucked back then.

I think I'll checkout CR for us here to see if it's something we could use. I suppose that if RTM's don't have any reporting logic then it would be very time consuming to recreate the RTM reports in CR.

How about this: Could the Evo users with CR get together and each do up a few of the RTM reports in CR? Then the CR users could do all of their reports in CR and nobody would have to go to the time and expense of trying to recreate every report.

Title: Re: RTM
Post by NovaZyg on 01/24/07 at 09:48:43

I think that is a great Idea, and hope that some users might do just that and make it available to all. That said, there are Crystal version issues, and users custom version of each report to deal with, but there is defiantly strength in numbers and you the users could get something done much faster then we would be able too.

We would even provide the FTP site to up/download any and all reports that users want to share.

Title: Re: RTM
Post by kkmfg on 01/24/07 at 10:43:51

Yeah, each person would probably have to take the CR version of a report and modify it for their uses (if they do indeed need custom reports) but the time in doing so would be far less than trying to do it all oneself.

I'll have to look into how compatible differing versions of CR are with each other. How easily a report created in one could be used in another. My guess is that they are forward compatible but not very backward compatible. Thus every report would have to be saved in the oldest version's fileformat as possible.

I don't know if we'll go the CR route here but whether we do or not I still think that it would be interesting to see a user led initiative like this start up.

Title: Re: RTM
Post by Kelloggs on 01/24/07 at 12:20:37

Pervasive web site has a nice "Component Zone" page.

"...contribute and share various resources including, sample programs, code snippets, executable utilities, entire applications...."

This forum needs a page like that.

http://www.pervasive.com/componentzone/

Regards,

Kelloggs

Title: Re: RTM
Post by kkmfg on 01/24/07 at 13:41:52

Yes, that looks like a nice resource to have. Something of the sort could probably be of use for EvoERP as well.

Title: Re: RTM
Post by GasGiant on 01/25/07 at 05:26:08

That would also be a good format for sharing the web interface components that we have been discussing in another thread.