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ISTech Support Forum
http://www.istechforum.com/YaBB.pl Evo-ERP and DBA Classic >> User Polls >> Evo Vrs Classic Development http://www.istechforum.com/YaBB.pl?num=1173366502 Message started by NovaZyg on 03/08/07 at 07:08:22 |
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Title: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by NovaZyg on 03/08/07 at 07:08:22 Since you brought it up, lets take a poll to see what the users want. |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by kkmfg on 03/08/07 at 07:40:48 Technically Kevin turned the old thread into a Poll but your poll is more short and sweet. |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by JNAPIER on 03/08/07 at 07:45:03 I voted Evo Only. Hey the more time they can work on EVO, the faster it will get dialed in....... John |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by kevind on 03/08/07 at 07:46:21 I represent that remark!!! ;D ;D ;D Seriously though, I was not only interested in YES or NO, but also a reason why. |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by cathyh on 03/08/07 at 08:00:23 I voted Evo only after first gut reaction was to fix bugs in Classic also. My reason is that most of my workstations now only have the Evo shortcut because I want my users to be using that. Only a few select people still have the DBA option in case a report does not work in Evo (It happens!) I like the way Evo is going and would like to see it get there faster. |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by kkmfg on 03/08/07 at 08:19:22 kevind wrote:
I'm not saying that your poll was bad. Far from it actually. But his *was* more to the point and I think that what ISTech is most interested in is whether people want them to continue developing Classic (no way) or move to just Evo. Personally, I voted just Evo because I think it's a waste of time to try to even fix bugs in Classic. I'm well aware of the hornet's nest that was the source code for the Classic version and if I were them I wouldn't want to touch that rotting carcass with a 10 foot pole. Still, I certainly understand how current users of Classic would appreciate bug fixes. Most companies drop bug fixing old versions VERY rapidly. You will be hard pressed to see new fixes for old versions of Flash, SurfCam, etc. They only fix the newest version and if you want fixes you'll keep current on version. One might think that unfair as you did pay for the old product but it's just not worth it to try to fix a software version is that outdated. It's way more work and provides basically no new money. And, let's put it this way... The last version of Classic was from 2004 and it is now 2007. There has been three years of fixes and upgrades to a discontinued product. That's about 2 years more than there should have been. I think that bug fixes should usually be free once you buy a product but I see no special reason to even attempt coding support for older revisions of a software product. Granted, take what I say with a grain of salt because I write software too and I know first hand the horror that is debugging. No programmer wants to debug any more than they absolutely have to. Trying to fix multiple software revisions is just a black hole with no center. The developer will end up getting sucked into it with no end in sight. So from my vantage point, I do not want to subject ISTech to that level of Hell. I would rather they concentrate on something that 1:Will make them money and 2: Will most quickly create a minimally buggy product. Goal 1 somewhat naturally leads to goal 2 and goal 2 leads to goal 1. They support each other. Fixing a three year old program that has already been superceded for quite some time is just a dead end. And, as Forest Gump says, that's all I have to say about that. |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by GasGiant on 03/08/07 at 08:52:30 Unfortunately, if IS Tech announced that they were not going to do anything with Classic, they would probably be hurt in the revenue department. That would affect the development of Evo as much or more than continuing to make bug fixes to Classic. On the other hand, if they announce that all new feature development will be happening in Evo only, but that they will continue to support Classic indefinitely, most of their Classic support customers would be completely satisfied. I'm painting them with a broad brush, I know, but I really get the sense that Classic users don't care much about new features. They want Classic to do what it does, just the way it does (or should), and to do it in a way that requires near zero support. |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by kkmfg on 03/08/07 at 09:07:13 You could be right. But I still think that what I'm saying makes sense. That it's not reasonable to expect a company to support a long dead version of a software package when new versions are now out. Did DBA Mfg ever make bug fixes for old versions of DBA once they came out with a new version? Why should ISTech? I don't know how many of their customers are sticking with Classic and how many are on Evo. But I hope most of them are on EvoERP by now. I would think that some sort of promotion would be possible to get the holdouts to transition over. Like maybe give them free updates subscription equal in value to the cost of the upgrade to Evo? One of my big problems with the support of Classic (and this happens in plenty of other situations like this as well - Think Windows) is that supporting the old version (Classic) requires that EvoERP conform to the Classic parameters. Such as, EvoERP can't encrypt passwords because Classic wouldn't understand it then. EvoERP can't change database fields that are also used in Classic. The list goes on. It really is time to quit the heel dragging and just bite the bullet and do what it takes to get everyone onto EvoERP. |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by deburr on 03/08/07 at 09:34:18 I agree with Cathy. Classic is a good safety net when Evo updates go bad. |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by tdlugosh on 03/08/07 at 09:37:10 I agree with GG. Think DBA->NG. They dumped a viable product for a pie-in the-sky product that stinks after at least 3 years work. Some people are perfectly happy with Classic - it does the job. Classic needs to be maintained while EVO is being developed. The market will tell ISTECH when Classic is no longer relevent. I'd hate to think Lynn would operate the way Mike Hart did and leave hundreds of customers stranded. Tom Dlugosh |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by kkmfg on 03/08/07 at 09:47:53 See, here's my point though. EvoERP is not substantially different than Classic. It's the exact same thing but with some GUI and other improvements. There is no leaving people high and dry. DBA NG was not even developed by DBA and was nothing like Classic AT ALL. There is a HUGE difference between what I'm suggesting and what DBA Mfg did. If Classic were as great as people seem to be suggesting then why does it even need updates? ;-) The underlying problem though, is that so far EvoERP has had a lot of stability problems. It would seem that maybe it needs more testing before release. But still, the old classic programs are available in the interim. I just don't think that any work should be done to those old versions if it can at all be helped. If there is some huge show stopper then, yeah, fix it. But otherwise leave it lie. Classic programs are an albatross around the neck of EvoERP and really should go as soon as possible. But, if using Classic means that much to people then they are free to use it for however long they want. I just don't think that they should expect any more updates. tdlugosh wrote:
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by GasGiant on 03/08/07 at 10:20:02 1) Freeze Classic's feature set forever. 2) Remove Classic from future Evo distros 3) Continue to support Classic users with bug fixes (stabilize) 4) Develop new features for Evo~ERP only Meanwhile, the user community works on the universal interface (Intra/Internet) so that non-transactional users get their data / reports without noodling around inside Evo. Honestly, I get more complaints from users who are trying to extract data than I do from those who are performing transactions. I thought that my web interface was going to be for customers and vendors, but most of the excitement when I demonstrate new web-based features sounds like, "Oh wow, I can use that myself! It's much easier than getting the tracking number (or whatever) out of Evo!" :P |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by kkmfg on 03/08/07 at 10:23:50 That sounds like a decent enough plan to me. |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by tdlugosh on 03/08/07 at 12:58:55 The four steps seem to be a very sound approach for long term planning. In the short run, however, current iterations need a lot of attention. Tom |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by Lynn_Pantic on 03/08/07 at 17:48:06 Agreed, the immediate near term plan is bug fixes and stability on all platforms. We are already chest-deep (up to our necks?) in issues large and small that are being addressed and patches will be posted immediately as things are fixed. These patches will not require data structure updates so long as you have the base 2/14/07 update installed. The purpose of these polls is to solicit your opinions as to where we go a few months down the road once the near term objective is achieved. |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by Shanthi Nair on 03/09/07 at 06:51:15 I am new to this forum but I would like to submit my views as a long term user of Classic. IT seems like EVO is the platform for new features and classic was what EVO was developed from. Stability for both platforms is critical and that is what I would like to see. I would be happy to move to EVO and move to EVO once my users are comfortable but for that we need basic stability in CLASSIC as far as inventory, SOs and POS are concerned. I dont mind freezing of CLASSICS features but I do want stability with the existing features. Shanthi IT Manager, Degree Controls, Inc. Milford NH 03055. |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by shadowcaster on 03/12/07 at 10:49:29 As a really small business user heres what I need Make the transactions 100% Stable and Accurate I dont care what platform its on it just needs to run w/o errors. I use Evo myself and love it old evo not the new T7 stuff thats too unstable Everyone else in my company likes classic but they just do the basics. Im sure they could switch over w/o training. I do use Data collection That should always run on the oldest hardware I just ran out of 486 machines. :-) besides you dont want to put a nice new computer inside a machine shop. Id like to see some type of CRM system grafted onto EVO something like V tiger would be great if it hooked into DBA http://www.vtiger.com hey its open sourced based can you just hook it in you know make a plugin ? some kind of graphical drag and drop schedule tool would be awesome too something visual like Microsoft project that would work with DBA data directly. web type interface stuff is cool but GRUNT stuff that can do actual work so I dont have to is better for me J Dub |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by gtladmin on 03/13/07 at 11:31:25 We vote for Evo updates only (sorry classic users) because we made a commitment to stick with Evo, and we need to see that it's going to continue an active path of evolution and updates. We'd love to see the new Contact Manager (vTiger), and some BI tools added in, or some way for EvoERP to work with a popular open source BI toolset for ease of integration. And of course, the all important better reporting and easier methods to edit or enhance the reports. FWIW Val |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by lmk223a on 03/13/07 at 13:01:13 GasGiant wrote:
Ditto!! We have a few users on DBA Classic that are reluctanct to change, but their software use is extremely limited (they are happy clams.) As long as DBA still integrates with EVO for manufacturing and financial results, I shall be happy. |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by Dennis on 03/16/07 at 04:39:41 My vote for now is to continue with Evo-ERP and DBA Classic both. The reason is, I CANNOT get Evo to run at our company and so we are staying with Classic and I like the updates you have been doing. Thanks, Dennis :-[ |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by lizzleanne on 03/16/07 at 05:06:52 voted in poll and wanted to add that we use both Classic and Evo as there are still so many things in Evo that have issues that we rely on Classic for quite a bit yet..like where Evo is headed but glad to have Classic as a companion while Evo evolves...we would be lost if Classic were to go by the wayside... |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by Keith H on 03/16/07 at 06:40:52 Classic is all we need. |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by Gary Neidig on 03/16/07 at 06:42:58 End users like the bells and whistles, assuming the program doesn't crash. That being said, DBA from a functional point does most of what people need. ISTECH needs to fix bugs in DBA so users are content, and continue to enhance EVO so that when DBA-NG does finally deliver, people will be satisfied with EVO, and not want to jump back to the DBA-NG ship. |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by Lori on 03/16/07 at 07:24:34 Classic works great for us. |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by Dave Miller on 03/16/07 at 07:57:47 Since we switched to EVO - basically as soon as it was available - we have never gone back to classic. |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by Dick on 03/16/07 at 08:13:11 I want to change my vote from bug fixes only to on-going Classic & EVO. Over the years Classic has been perfect for us because it does all the basics well and reliably, doesn't require high levels of tech expertise, the cost is affordable, and it almost always works right. You have always been able to be just a dba Classic user, and not get in over your head or your time budget with development bumps and issues. Lynn, you'll earn my dollar by keeping Classic bulletproof and accessible. And releasing EVO updates when they're equally robust. But I do think the market has now, and will continue to have viable alternatives closer to EVO's higher level of function/complexity. Classic is unique, you've made it a lot better, and there's a whole market strata (and I have to believe secure cash flow) that it has all to itself. So for the poll, +1 to Classic & EVO, -1 to bug fixes only. Dick |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by fcopple on 03/16/07 at 08:14:04 Classic is all we need. |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by GasGiant on 03/16/07 at 08:28:35 fcopple wrote:
A very valid opinion, however, it does not go to the question. Our poll results may be getting hosed if people are not considering the question. - If all you ever want is Classic and you want it to be solid and continue as is, then freezing the feature set is likely best for you, since Classic would be most stable under this arrangement - If you don't want any of your users on Classic, then you would likely be best served if IS Tech were focusing all of their time on Evo - If you are determined to continue with some users on Classic that would likely be the only good reason to vote "Ev & Classic", which means that IS Tech would continue developing new features (and introducing new bugs into) Classic |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by Dawn on 03/22/07 at 11:38:44 I currently use DBA Classic and would be very upset if I was left hanging with no support to fix problems. That's why I pay to get support. Not that I use it a great deal, but when something goes wrong I am the one everyone comes to for answers and being that we are a small company (35 people) I need help now. Don't get me wrong I have my issues with DBA Classic. GasGiant explained my situation best "I get more complaints from users who are trying to extract data than I do from those who are performing transactions". Luckily I have worked my up thru this company and worked every job there is so I understand the flow of information from SO to PO to BOM to WO to the GL even if I have to look in multiple places to find this information and put it together in excel. Which costs me time but not nearly as much time if I had to deal with stability problems from an upgrade. Understand I am NOT an IT person. kkmfg - GUI???? I out source that and that is expensive. I already wear to many hats. If it's not broke don't fix it. So if more time needs to be spent working on making EVO better for extracting data and writing reports and fixing stability problems I'm all for it, but to be left hanging with no support would make my stress level go thru the roof!! >:( I just can't! |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by NovaZyg on 03/22/07 at 11:45:40 We are not saying that we will stop supporting Classic. The question was should we keep trying to add new features to Classic. We will fix bugs in Classic, and add new features to Evo. The questions is mostly for NEW development in Classic. |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by kkmfg on 03/22/07 at 12:25:58 Dawn wrote:
That's something that sticks to your shoe if you accidentally step on it. Or, it means Graphical User Interface. ;-) I forget that not everyone is an IT person. Sorry. |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by podell on 03/22/07 at 12:43:49 We are using DBA classic - have no intentions of switching. So of course I would like to see new developments in Classic. Thanks for asking ;) |
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Title: Re: Evo vs Classic Development Post by Reid on 03/27/07 at 11:18:47 I've had a few people try switching to EVO, but they all have gone back to Classic. I've been using EVO on-and-off for a couple months and am getting used to it. Once I gain moe confidence, I'll try again to get some users to make the switch. Classic is stable and proven...but EVO shows a lot of promise. I think Gas Giant has the right idea in his four point outline. |
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Title: Re: Evo Vrs Classic Development Post by GP50 on 04/12/07 at 09:39:57 NovaZyg wrote:
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